Clutch does not release at all..................

[whats better than greasy]

Good day to all. I am an Airhead guy, '60's '70's BMW's..... Just bought a '72K2, I couldn't be more thrilled. I do all my own work. I rode this for less than 20 miles. The current exhaust is too obnoxious to ride in the community. I am waiting on parts. However, the clutch is engaged and I cannot get it to let go. I have already disassembled it, cleaned all plates and pressure points. Refilled the oil. Turned up it over a few times in neutral and kicking it a bit.
The tranny works perfectly, but no cable or clutch adjustment will get the clutch to release. Any thoughts from you veterans of these machines? I would appreciate any insight. Thank you for reading this. I am willing to reciprocate if a Beemer question is needed. Enjoy the holiday all.
Cliff

 

[Biebs]

It is not a dry clutch like your BMW’s

wet clutch will stick a little on engagement cold startup.

assuming you have all the parts installed correctly

 

[whats better than greasy]

Thanks so much for the answer Biebs. Are you saying the clutch will have pressure on it till started and oil flows to make it 'wet'? I feel this clutch is not going to slip or release at all. It is assembled correctly for sure. This is exactly how it felt before I even took it apart. This bad boy feels completely engaged, not just some pressure and then some slipping. Just trying to be sure I understand your description 100%. I really appreciate your response.
I can't thank you enough as a newbee............... Best to you, CTC

 

[Biebs]

Yes lots of experience with BMW's and dry clutch feel.

Wet clutch -Once running and clutch disengaged the initial click into 1st gear will be "engaging". You can have bike on center stand and use the rear brake to ensure you are in neutral.

 

[whats better than greasy]

Nice rig. I have a R75/5, a R90S, a R60/2 and a R1200CL. I can't explain it but I really enjoy that 1970's era. Thanks for your time and interest. When I have the Honda on my lift, the rear wheel is free to turn, there is full resistance in every gear. Is that how it should feel? Or are you saying there is 'some' resistance? This bike is in gear for sure........... There is no 'slipping' it is firm and solidly in gear. It very well can be my inexperience. I don't have the bike on the ground to check, I am waiting on an exhaust system. It had straight pipes and was much too obnoxious. I bought a 4 into 1.

 

[Floshenbarnical]

Did you adjust the ball bearing lifter clearance just inside the outer cover? It’s adjusted by loosening the jam nut and then adjusting with a flat screwdriver. If it’s not “in” far enough then the clutch won’t engage. Common occurrence with clutch rebuilds, the clearance gets out of wack when you take it all apart.

Another issue people have is that they can’t even pull the clutch in. The basket has that backing plate at the “deepest” end of the stack, and it can only be correctly installed at 2 of the 4 90° angles of rotation. I don’t think there’s an alignment notch or anything, you just have to rotate it until the stacks and backing plates are all snug

Please tell me you oiled the plates before installing!

 

[whats better than greasy]

First of all, thank you so much for responding. This is my first Honda (wet clutch) but I work on all my bikes myself so I have some clue.
I DID wipe oil on all disks as I assembled the clutch pack. I DID adjust the screw down to 'just contact' and then backed off a tiny bit. I see the whole clutch release lever working properly, as I see it push the release plate with the three bearings under it, a full extension as the lever gets pulled by the clutch cable.
Just please confirm, since it is still up on my bench, that all this may go away as I start the engine and the oil flows over the clutch plates. The question at this moment still is, "is that feeling of the clutch not soaked in oil and having pressure on it, a 'drag' on the clutch or should it feel 'fully engaged' while not running??" I thought I felt the clutch on the final ride I was doing before breaking it down, that the clutch needed adjustment and just wasn't releasing completely as I was going through the gears. As if it required a cable adjustment or the adjustment screw to the bearing lifter was not correct. I took it all apart. All clutch rings had meat on them. I cleaned all metal discs. I reassembled correctly. Greased the pressure plate and bearings. Upon re-assembly I made sure the outside clutch unit pulled via the arm, and pushed via the adjusting screw correctly. The clutch just seems engaged to me when I turn the rear tire. PS: The tranny goes through all gears properly. ONCE again, thanks for any input. Best to you, Cliff

 

[Floshenbarnical]

First of all, thank you so much for responding. This is my first Honda (wet clutch) but I work on all my bikes myself so I have some clue.
I DID wipe oil on all disks as I assembled the clutch pack. I DID adjust the screw down to 'just contact' and then backed off a tiny bit. I see the whole clutch release lever working properly, as I see it push the release plate with the three bearings under it, a full extension as the lever gets pulled by the clutch cable.
Just please confirm, since it is still up on my bench, that all this may go away as I start the engine and the oil flows over the clutch plates. The question at this moment still is, "is that feeling of the clutch not soaked in oil and having pressure on it, a 'drag' on the clutch or should it feel 'fully engaged' while not running??" I thought I felt the clutch on the final ride I was doing before breaking it down, that the clutch needed adjustment and just wasn't releasing completely as I was going through the gears. As if it required a cable adjustment or the adjustment screw to the bearing lifter was not correct. I took it all apart. All clutch rings had meat on them. I cleaned all metal discs. I reassembled correctly. Greased the pressure plate and bearings. Upon re-assembly I made sure the outside clutch unit pulled via the arm, and pushed via the adjusting screw correctly. The clutch just seems engaged to me when I turn the rear tire. PS: The tranny goes through all gears properly. ONCE again, thanks for any input. Best to you, Cliff

Oh, lol. I know exactly what you mean. I had the same head-scratcher - tell me this, does it feel “different” eg “looser” when you turn the rear tire with the clutch pulled and in gear Vs not pulled and in gear. Because I rebuilt my clutch with new plates and springs a couple weeks ago and was convinced the clutch was not engaging until I thought “screw it” and went for a ride. Spoiler: it worked like a brand new clutch, because it was. On the stand, the rear wheel would lock without the clutch pulled, but would turn with it pulled but felt like it was engaging internal mechanisms and turning them over. It is. It’s a bit like when you’re free-wheeling on a bicycle with gears. Things are moving, but you’re feet aren’t. Obviously it’s a completely different mechanism but it’s the closest analogy I can think of.

So long as you have all the parts installed and installed in the correct way, eg lock nut secured rounded side facing away from you, correct number of plates so the stack is secure with backing plates, backing plate oriented correctly, clutch adjusted, lifter adjusted, cable lubed, etc etc it should just work. Try it. The worst that will happen is you will have to put the bike back on the stand and continue to exfoliate your scalp.

Tip: this clutch should last you 80k miles but if you do this again, soak the cork plates in motor oil *overnight* so it drinks it all in rather than just lining the surface.

Further tip: if the plates all look good, you may want to replace the springs for good measure. They can lose some tension over time. Do not buy the heavy duty clutch springs you can find on VintageCB750 etc because they’re mistakenly attributed to this bike. They’re designed for bikes that output like 90hp, and are far too stiff. I could barely pull the clutch when I put them in, and felt like I’d snap the cable pretty quick.

Also should go without saying, pay close attention to your cable routing so it doesn’t get bound up or in my case slip and melt against the exhaust header, requiring a replacement.

 

[whats better than greasy]

Oh, lol. I know exactly what you mean. I had the same head-scratcher - tell me this, does it feel “different” eg “looser” when you turn the rear tire with the clutch pulled and in gear Vs not pulled and in gear. Because I rebuilt my clutch with new plates and springs a couple weeks ago and was convinced the clutch was not engaging until I thought “screw it” and went for a ride. Spoiler: it worked like a brand new clutch, because it was. On the stand, the rear wheel would lock without the clutch pulled, but would turn with it pulled but felt like it was engaging internal mechanisms and turning them over. It is. It’s a bit like when you’re free-wheeling on a bicycle with gears. Things are moving, but you’re feet aren’t. Obviously it’s a completely different mechanism but it’s the closest analogy I can think of.

So long as you have all the parts installed and installed in the correct way, eg lock nut secured rounded side facing away from you, correct number of plates so the stack is secure with backing plates, backing plate oriented correctly, clutch adjusted, lifter adjusted, cable lubed, etc etc it should just work. Try it. The worst that will happen is you will have to put the bike back on the stand and continue to exfoliate your scalp.

Tip: this clutch should last you 80k miles but if you do this again, soak the cork plates in motor oil *overnight* so it drinks it all in rather than just lining the surface.

Further tip: if the plates all look good, you may want to replace the springs for good measure. They can lose some tension over time. Do not buy the heavy duty clutch springs you can find on VintageCB750 etc because they’re mistakenly attributed to this bike. They’re designed for bikes that output like 90hp, and are far too stiff. I could barely pull the clutch when I put them in, and felt like I’d snap the cable pretty quick.

Also should go without saying, pay close attention to your cable routing so it doesn’t get bound up or in my case slip and melt against the exhaust header, requiring a replacement.

I can't thank you enough. I will be back in that garage this weekend. If all goes well, I will get my first full nights sleep in a week. Of course I have been lying in bed nightly, wondering what I did incorrectly. Until I install the new exhaust I have in the garage, I won't know for sure. The old one was too loud to use. I am new in the development and I am scared to death of HOA's!!! I am the only person I have seen with a lift and work area in the garage. The '75 R90S BMW is much much quieter than those straight pipes. You have been so helpful. One more big 'thank you' and next is for me to let you know, all is well. I am on it this weekend....................... Stay safe, Cliff

 

[Floshenbarnical]

I can't thank you enough. I will be back in that garage this weekend. If all goes well, I will get my first full nights sleep in a week. Of course I have been lying in bed nightly, wondering what I did incorrectly. Until I install the new exhaust I have in the garage, I won't know for sure. The old one was too loud to use. I am new in the development and I am scared to death of HOA's!!! I am the only person I have seen with a lift and work area in the garage. The '75 R90S BMW is much much quieter than those straight pipes. You have been so helpful. One more big 'thank you' and next is for me to let you know, all is well. I am on it this weekend....................... Stay safe, Cliff

Cliff, it's my pleasure. Between this forum and http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php I could never have gotten this bike running the way I have. Even with pod filters on and open 4:1 exhaust it purrs like a sewing machine and snarls like a scalded panther when I open it up. I don't have an HOA here thankfully, but even at idle it rattles the windows so I try to be respectful.

And thanks, I will stay extremely safe - a tappet nut has flown off and gone missing inside the valve cover, presumably inside the cam chain tunnel, so I won't even be turning it over by hand until I've fished it out with a magnet on a string.