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Getting them darn pods to work

Rat Brapper

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Hey all. been fighting with this bike for a while now and finally broke. ive come to this forum with one major question. how in the hell do you make pod filters work??? ive done a lot of research into them, and we can all agree the stock airbox is bad, and people have made them work before. ive run them with restrictors in the pods, pods taped up, and am running it now with bigger jets and restrictors. it runs and goes, but one you hit WOT it just loses all power and sputters. doesnt die, just sputters. ive heard a few people suggest boring the hole in the slides out a little bit so more airflow can make it through and the slides raise smoothly. ive seen videos on youtube about making the various mods to these crabs and have seen people using mod kits, but cant for the life of me find links or a website. just need some advice and some wisdom. thanks all!
 
I will never agree the stock airbox is bad on CV carbs, it shows a misunderstanding of what is going on there. The pulsing back and forth due to all carbs pulling on a common resonating air mass that is semi-trapped in by a paper air filter helps the individual carbs to run slide vacuum up higher, you lose 100% of that sharing thing with pods. It's not just a restriction issue and taping pods doesn't touch that. Direct lift type carbs don't feel that nearly so much as CVs and these being labyrinth CV type with no rubber diaphragms are absolutely even bitchier about it. They leak part of the vacuum created in slide the whole time they operate, like having a torn diaphragm on others. Why pods are a problem on these. Drive with them really fine tuned and you still make virtually the same power as with the stock airbox. But put airbox back on after a while to get used to the pods and you will instantly feel a low rpm torque hit that the pods do not have.

The pods most definitely do not care for stock exhaust, that makes it even harder to tune them in. They like a good flowing header. What jet are you running?, the sputtering says pig rich, the slides are not opening fully or fast enough, what the pods do. Drilling holes can help open them faster but no effect on total amount lifted, that is determined by absolute engine condition, engine down on ring/valve seal does NOT open slides as much, then the pods utterly kill it. Can't emphasize that enough. Why most people have issues, they refuse to look at the motor itself.

On a good tight 750 motor 75P-115S jets work well with a header. Taping them up is silly, may as well put the airbox back on and pick up the lost power then. Taping too much and you just increased the jets, same thing. Wrong, wrong. Bigger jets AND taped?, Have fun with that..............oh, you already have.

Go to the Dynojet website and scrounge around in stage 1 installation instructions to find the exact drillbit size to drill slides with, and completely ignore than you must have their kit to make that work, it's bullsh-t. The slides don't open smoother, that's worthless, drilled, they work FASTER, the lag produces a temporary rich spot that freaks the motor out. After that it's everything you can to get them to open FULLY, nothing really you can do there but one rock solid rule to NOT IGNORE..........these CVs open slides most and fastest when slightly LEAN. Any rich at all and they immediately drop based on how much, any dropping then produces MORE rich due to increased pull because of smaller venturi, etc........beginning to get an idea of what your sputter is??? A quick look behind the bike should show black smoke from it.

Even as simple a thing as valve adjustment can make the pods more problematic, these engines are known for being freaky to set valves on, you set looking for .005" instead of the service manual spec of .003", the engines commonly burn valves at .002" from them held open while running. What you get at engine stopped and checking carefully is NOT what engine sees at rpm. Valve barely not closed and the pods then drive you nuts and how most of these end up, burned valves from not set right.

Engine condition is EVERYTHING to making pods work on these. Done right they will run fine but still may have trouble getting over 8500 rpm in high gear due to slides still not opening 100% of the way, maybe 90%. Engine should be able to run sparkling clean all the way up to 9500+ in all the other gears though. BTDT.
 
I now (too late) see that you don't mention the engine type or year, the post above is for the '79-'83 DOHCs.

Dynojet makes kits but after using one I got better result using NOTHING of theirs, only OEM parts. Their jets are NOT relateable to Honda jets, the holes are slightly different sizes.

http://www.dynojet.com/jetkits/
 
I have an 81. I talked with another guy a little bit back and he said my sputtering was the sound of the slides dropping and raising quickly. He also suggested trying to block off one of the 3 holes on the slide. Possibly making it a little more sensitive to the vacuum. Haven't had a lot of experience with these and just want to go riding. I bought the bike with pods so unfortunately I can't throw the stock box back on. I have 75/110 jets
 
Haven't had a lot of experience with these and just want to go riding. I bought the bike with pods so unfortunately I can't throw the stock box back on. I have 75/110 jets

amc49 has had experience with these and has proposed the best solution.


I bought the bike with pods so unfortunately I can't throw the stock box back on.

I would try to find a used one that some fool replaced with pods. Buy it before he realizes he should put it back on!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/81-HONDA-CB...ash=item5d62d5658d:g:k04AAOSwoBtW6s~B&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-1982-7...ash=item2c701b1de7:g:E64AAOxye3BRw3TE&vxp=mtr

https://olympic.craigslist.org/mcy/5678757412.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB900...ash=item2cb088954a:g:FPgAAOSwARZXpo4i&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-1980-1...ash=item5654838577:g:vHIAAOxyoA1RULlQ&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-1982-H...ash=item210e6ec25a:g:HhEAAOSwtO5XI4cD&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-Honda-...ash=item1eab81e15d:g:NgsAAOSwFNZWviEm&vxp=mtr
 
That jetting will NOT sputter unless engine or carb condition is off. It might if you are running OEM pipes. For sure no slides popping up and down does it, they do that all day long and normal at certain times. The sound of rich and the engine misfiring to only hit part of the time is what you hear. You're not lighting off all of the fuel there, too much of it and that wets out your ignition process. What with 2 strokes we call '4 stroking', with a 4 stroke I guess it would be '8 stroking' if you will. Meaning so rich the engine cannot fire correctly every spark event it should, only part of them. Similar to poor man's EGR or cam lope on a high-perf engine, the very uneven ignition you get in that case due to exhaust gas greatly polluting the mixture at idle, it then does not ignite perfectly every time to misfire part of the time, the lope you hear. The difference is the cam issue goes away as you speed engine up due to cam timing coming into play, the rich issue gets worse.

Incomplete combustion can come from way more than just one thing.

Having done some basic CV vacuum testing I can 100% assure you that blocking off slide holes will absolutely make the slide open slower and the problem will get WORSE. BTDT with both one and two holes blocked off testing. When you open up holes bigger the slides open faster but crucially they still open the same amount they would have before. All you are doing is getting rid of the temporary rich hit when slide is actually moving, a very small amount of the time.

Compression test the motor, it determines whether you even have a chance at making the pods work. People just don't get that. The engine off in compression then has no 'pull' on the carbs, the slides then do not open fully and super rich even with what would normally be lean jetting. Why the first indicator of engine condition is that the engine begins to not pull out all the way to max rpm in high gear, the slides have dropped from less seal even with a completely stock bike.

If pods just installed then too much oil in them (way easier to do than you think) can do it too until the pods have sucked clean enough to run right but sometimes the plugs have flawed enough from that by then to still give problems. Once you have short circuited spark down the side of a plug across porcelain simply cleaning them often does not bring them back. Only like a glassbead job can do that.

Curse whoever yanked the airbox, they run faster with it on.....................the 50 mm. or so (two inch) stack length behind the carbs into airbox just happens to be the same length the superbike racers settled on as giving top horsepower to the engines, that's no accident. Proven on a dyno more than once.
 
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My two cents here, 4 months ago I bought a 1980 750c with pods. The PO had done a Dynojet Stage 2 "upgrade" on the carbs and was selling the bike because it was running like crap. Luckily, he had kept the airbox and after addressing a number of other issues with the bike, I bought a Randakk rebuild kit and did a full tear down and cleaning of the carbs. I installed the airbox back (with help from amc49, among others) and this kitten is purring like never before. (Occasional popping form cil #1 but that's another story)

Oh yeah, I had to buy a carb bank from eBay ($160) to replace the Dynojet needle and slide, since the Stage 2 calls for enlarging the 3 holes in the bottom of the slide.
Pods look like and all, but I don't think it's worth the hassle. The more time the bike spends torn apart in the garage, the less time we have riding it.


 
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