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AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
The newer CB750s are a lot more common than the older models, and not nearly as collectible, so they don't command the same price as an older model would. The same way that a 1987 Camaro doesn't bring the same price as a 1968 Camaro would. The newer CB750s, a.k.a. " Nighthawk " are still great bikes, and are extremely reliable. If you are going to build a modern style cafe racer that will be extensively modified, they are a great place to start, as basic parts for them are generally cheaper and easier to find than older model parts are. They usually don't have much support for aftermarket race or custom parts though, because there just aren't that many people doing extensive modifications to them. Search the internet for modern examples of customized CB750s though, and you will be suprized by the customs some people are turning out from the newer models.
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amc49
CB750 Guru
Actually, I'm inclined to think they are NOT as common as the ones of old and just like the Camaro thing. Everybody had one as they were dead dirt cheap as a project car but look what you have to give even for a dogged out 'new' one today. The new bikes are too expensive now with wages dropping.
The SOHC and the early DOHC were ubiquitous in their day, today you are lucky to see a current 750-4 at one every 3-4 weeks. You'll see lots of others but all are different. When I was salivating for an F in '80 I saw like 4 a day and that only made it worse. Like cars, the bikes have gone way up in price now as compared to the man-in-the-street wages. The OEMs changed from the overall numbers to the individual price, they jacked prices way up due to sales dropoff. Notice I did not say average wages as there is pretty much no such thing any more, that makes any sense anyway.
Without the big production numbers you won't get the mod parts, there for cars but look at what you have to pay to get them. I could NEVER build up a hot car the way I could in the late '60s-early '70s. No way in heck.
The new stuff is reliable as heck if you bear in mind one thing. Honda has honed their long held policy of dead stock bikes being rock solid but if you mod them you find out quickly they do not have the hi-perf overhead older ones did. By that I mean you will run into modding issues, things will begin to break and if one thing fixed to not do so then you have only fixed that one thing, you still have a long list of other breakages coming up. The SOHC had plenty of overhead built into it, the first DOHCs less so, they tend to start breaking rods and such when pressed hard. I'd bet it's worse now. Computer design has lead the way to making sure an 150 horse engine makes that 150 forever, but go to 170 say and you could well be asking to drive over the crank. Honda has been known for that for a while now, like the Super Blackbird which broke easy when modded. Not like the days of the KZ1000 or GS1000 where you could almost double the power and still not break.
The SOHC and the early DOHC were ubiquitous in their day, today you are lucky to see a current 750-4 at one every 3-4 weeks. You'll see lots of others but all are different. When I was salivating for an F in '80 I saw like 4 a day and that only made it worse. Like cars, the bikes have gone way up in price now as compared to the man-in-the-street wages. The OEMs changed from the overall numbers to the individual price, they jacked prices way up due to sales dropoff. Notice I did not say average wages as there is pretty much no such thing any more, that makes any sense anyway.
Without the big production numbers you won't get the mod parts, there for cars but look at what you have to pay to get them. I could NEVER build up a hot car the way I could in the late '60s-early '70s. No way in heck.
The new stuff is reliable as heck if you bear in mind one thing. Honda has honed their long held policy of dead stock bikes being rock solid but if you mod them you find out quickly they do not have the hi-perf overhead older ones did. By that I mean you will run into modding issues, things will begin to break and if one thing fixed to not do so then you have only fixed that one thing, you still have a long list of other breakages coming up. The SOHC had plenty of overhead built into it, the first DOHCs less so, they tend to start breaking rods and such when pressed hard. I'd bet it's worse now. Computer design has lead the way to making sure an 150 horse engine makes that 150 forever, but go to 170 say and you could well be asking to drive over the crank. Honda has been known for that for a while now, like the Super Blackbird which broke easy when modded. Not like the days of the KZ1000 or GS1000 where you could almost double the power and still not break.
AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
All you have to do is search CB750 on a site such as Cycle Trader to see that a lot more newer model CB750s come up for sale than older models. Almost all of them are noticeably less expensive than even an average SOHC. Often, the older models you do find are in less than great shape, and the majority of people who would be looking for one don't have the mechanical experience to massage an older model bike back to life, much less constantly work at keeping it a daily runner. With advancements such as hydraulic valve lifters, newer bikes can go up to 50,000 miles before needing a major service. Modern CB750s dont need any major engine work, because they make plenty of useable power stock. A 1979 CB750F DOHC made 67hp, whereas a 2003 Nighthawk made 75hp, so I don't tend to agree with your comparison on power between old to new DOHCs. The front forks work great, easily better than any SOHC, that's why Honda lifted them to use on the NT 650 Hawk. The rear shocks and swing arm are a vast improvement as well, with much less flex than any older model.
Now I love an old Honda as much as anyone, I'm not trying to sell them short by any means, but you can not sell a newer CB750 short by saying that it's engine is anything but bulletproof. I know of lot's of mild to wild modded Nighthawks that are perfectly reliable, and ridden as daily drivers every day.
Also, CBR1100 Blackbirds breaking easily with modifications?! Where are you getting that info from? Our shop has a Blackbird with a 1236cc big bore and a Mr. Turbo blower that consistently puts out 215hp at the rear wheel on the Dyno. It has been modded this way for going on 7 years this July, and has never needed anything beyond new clutch plates and tires. Our local fast rider group has 3 Blackbirds that are similarly modded that have stellar records of longevity.
When the 1969 CB750 came out it sold for $1495, which is the equivalent of $9500 in today's money. You could buy a 2006 Nighthawk for $7999. I'd say that was far from a " jack up " in prices.
Now I love an old Honda as much as anyone, I'm not trying to sell them short by any means, but you can not sell a newer CB750 short by saying that it's engine is anything but bulletproof. I know of lot's of mild to wild modded Nighthawks that are perfectly reliable, and ridden as daily drivers every day.
Also, CBR1100 Blackbirds breaking easily with modifications?! Where are you getting that info from? Our shop has a Blackbird with a 1236cc big bore and a Mr. Turbo blower that consistently puts out 215hp at the rear wheel on the Dyno. It has been modded this way for going on 7 years this July, and has never needed anything beyond new clutch plates and tires. Our local fast rider group has 3 Blackbirds that are similarly modded that have stellar records of longevity.
When the 1969 CB750 came out it sold for $1495, which is the equivalent of $9500 in today's money. You could buy a 2006 Nighthawk for $7999. I'd say that was far from a " jack up " in prices.
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amc49
CB750 Guru
Maybe I'm getting my bikes mixed up, I was pretty sure there for a while the Blackbirds were having issues being hotrodded. ??? Now you're making me wonder where I got that.
The '79 DOHC 750 was rated at 75 hp, not 67, which is a number for the SOHC. I've got an '80 model F.
As far as power today, not saying it's less, they are commonly MORE due to better technology but then modding them after the fact is what gets you problems. Moving away from the OEM power levels. They are reliable too, until you go deeper into modding.
What would you call a wild Nighthawk? I'm assuming lots of internal engine mods.
By jack up in prices I meant what the average guy can afford, most can't a bike for 8 grand, that's getting to car territory and a better deal getting the car. I bought a whole stream of cars for $9-11K back then (around 2006). Read how I qualified that statement. You don't buy bikes making $8/hr. now but I did making minimum wage back then and more than once. Why would so many come up for sale? Maybe they can't afford them. The min wage has not moved up to match the bike prices. So we can quote figures all day long.
Unless something major has changed no way will a bike be going 50K miles if aircooled, here in Texas they commonly eat tensioners at 30K+ when the rubber begins to crack and fall off of them. It may be though that modern rubber vulcanizing has gotten better. The water coolers of course will go much longer.
The '79 DOHC 750 was rated at 75 hp, not 67, which is a number for the SOHC. I've got an '80 model F.
As far as power today, not saying it's less, they are commonly MORE due to better technology but then modding them after the fact is what gets you problems. Moving away from the OEM power levels. They are reliable too, until you go deeper into modding.
What would you call a wild Nighthawk? I'm assuming lots of internal engine mods.
By jack up in prices I meant what the average guy can afford, most can't a bike for 8 grand, that's getting to car territory and a better deal getting the car. I bought a whole stream of cars for $9-11K back then (around 2006). Read how I qualified that statement. You don't buy bikes making $8/hr. now but I did making minimum wage back then and more than once. Why would so many come up for sale? Maybe they can't afford them. The min wage has not moved up to match the bike prices. So we can quote figures all day long.
Unless something major has changed no way will a bike be going 50K miles if aircooled, here in Texas they commonly eat tensioners at 30K+ when the rubber begins to crack and fall off of them. It may be though that modern rubber vulcanizing has gotten better. The water coolers of course will go much longer.
AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
Let me try to make myself a little clearer for you as I think we're coming at this conversation from two different directions.
The 79 CB750 actually made 77 horsepower, but that was measured at the crank. It was 67 horsepower when measured at the back wheel on the dyno. The 2003 Nighthawk made 82 horsepower at the crank and 75 horsepower at the rear wheel. I use the rear wheel horsepower figures, because it is easier to measure in a real world test. Crank horsepower is not something that is easily measured by you or me, plus, manufacturers have been known to "fib" a little about crank horsepower numbers anyway. The dyno doesn't lie.
By wild modifications I mean performance crank and cam shafts, head modifications and porting/polishing, bigger valves and increased piston size/bore/higher compression, modified intake and exhaust, performance carburetors, performance clutch, lightened flywheel, performance ignition and so on.
Of course, your absolutely correct that if you make minimum wage you likely can't afford to buy a new bike. But the original post was not about new bikes. It was a question about the difference between newer model verses older model prices, not new bike prices. You can find a great late model Nighthawk for $2500, and that would barely buy you a SOHC parts bike these days.
It's not a stretch by any means to say that a late model Nighthawk can easily go 50,000 miles without a major service. That's one of the reasons people who own them love them so much. Low maintenance and longevity. Even in Texas. Yes it's hot there, but we aren't talking about the surface of Mercury.
I'm not trying to provoke you, I'm just trying to make sure you understand what I'm stating.
The 79 CB750 actually made 77 horsepower, but that was measured at the crank. It was 67 horsepower when measured at the back wheel on the dyno. The 2003 Nighthawk made 82 horsepower at the crank and 75 horsepower at the rear wheel. I use the rear wheel horsepower figures, because it is easier to measure in a real world test. Crank horsepower is not something that is easily measured by you or me, plus, manufacturers have been known to "fib" a little about crank horsepower numbers anyway. The dyno doesn't lie.
By wild modifications I mean performance crank and cam shafts, head modifications and porting/polishing, bigger valves and increased piston size/bore/higher compression, modified intake and exhaust, performance carburetors, performance clutch, lightened flywheel, performance ignition and so on.
Of course, your absolutely correct that if you make minimum wage you likely can't afford to buy a new bike. But the original post was not about new bikes. It was a question about the difference between newer model verses older model prices, not new bike prices. You can find a great late model Nighthawk for $2500, and that would barely buy you a SOHC parts bike these days.
It's not a stretch by any means to say that a late model Nighthawk can easily go 50,000 miles without a major service. That's one of the reasons people who own them love them so much. Low maintenance and longevity. Even in Texas. Yes it's hot there, but we aren't talking about the surface of Mercury.
I'm not trying to provoke you, I'm just trying to make sure you understand what I'm stating.
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amc49
CB750 Guru
Gotcha and X2.
I apologize for seeming to push you toward a corner.
Crank and rear wheel power I get. With that the technology getting better seems apparent. Reason I asked about the wild mods is because I wasn't aware the aftermarket supplied that varied amount for late model UJMCs any more. Carbs and filter mods and header yes but deeper internals no. I have to admit I've been out of the late model loop though.
I didn't realize you spend that much to get a SOHC, the last two early DOHC were given to me to get rid of them.
Most of those died way early because nobody runs the valves, after I messed up my first one the second I ran the valves and found if you simply look at them every once in a while that setting at a little bit loose and .005" they could go up to 20K+ with no setting but you DO have to do it at some point. Most of the bad running ones will be over 25-30K or so.
I apologize for seeming to push you toward a corner.
Crank and rear wheel power I get. With that the technology getting better seems apparent. Reason I asked about the wild mods is because I wasn't aware the aftermarket supplied that varied amount for late model UJMCs any more. Carbs and filter mods and header yes but deeper internals no. I have to admit I've been out of the late model loop though.
I didn't realize you spend that much to get a SOHC, the last two early DOHC were given to me to get rid of them.
Most of those died way early because nobody runs the valves, after I messed up my first one the second I ran the valves and found if you simply look at them every once in a while that setting at a little bit loose and .005" they could go up to 20K+ with no setting but you DO have to do it at some point. Most of the bad running ones will be over 25-30K or so.
AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
I didn't feel like you were backing me into a corner, no need to apologize! I used to be a Honda service manager, and I have a broad basic knowledge of service requirements for most of their models. I guess that's why I tend to be such a stickler. I didn't intend to come across as a forum know it all.
In the 1991-1999 CB750 factory service manual, in section 7- cylinder head, cylinder, piston, page 1- service information, it states " the engine uses hydraulic tappets that eliminate manual valve adjustments ". In fact, there is no provision for manual valve adjustments at all. Replacing a faulty tappet is the only repair possible. The cam chain adjuster is also hydraulic and self adjusting. Both eliminate the need for cylinder head cover removal. The cylinder head cover itself is not even equipped with tappet covers to access adjusters because there are none.
If you see that the cylinder head cover has been removed from a bike that you are considering buying, you have to wonder why it was removed in the first place. It can only indicate that some sort of fairly major repair work has been done to the engine.
These advancements are one of the things that make these engines so bulletproof, and also why they are so cheap to maintain. You don't have to ask your average customer to keep up with valve and cam chain adjustments.
Too bad drive chain adjustment wasn't automatic too...lol...then all you would have to do was change tires and oil/filter every once in a while and put gas in it!
In the 1991-1999 CB750 factory service manual, in section 7- cylinder head, cylinder, piston, page 1- service information, it states " the engine uses hydraulic tappets that eliminate manual valve adjustments ". In fact, there is no provision for manual valve adjustments at all. Replacing a faulty tappet is the only repair possible. The cam chain adjuster is also hydraulic and self adjusting. Both eliminate the need for cylinder head cover removal. The cylinder head cover itself is not even equipped with tappet covers to access adjusters because there are none.
If you see that the cylinder head cover has been removed from a bike that you are considering buying, you have to wonder why it was removed in the first place. It can only indicate that some sort of fairly major repair work has been done to the engine.
These advancements are one of the things that make these engines so bulletproof, and also why they are so cheap to maintain. You don't have to ask your average customer to keep up with valve and cam chain adjustments.
Too bad drive chain adjustment wasn't automatic too...lol...then all you would have to do was change tires and oil/filter every once in a while and put gas in it!
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AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
By the way, I think we may have high jacked this thread, sorry catmanjan!...lol!
amc49
CB750 Guru
I seem to have a hand in a lot of that...................sorry.
AlabamaCB750
Competent CB750 owner
On the forum page under "General Discussion", there should be a section called "The Debating Floor" just for this kind of conversation...LOL...that way the moderator could move threads that get out of hand there. 
